同性戀的吊詭

Re:同性戀的吊詭 Sorry I am not proficient in typing Chinese characters. So I’ll try to answer in English if you don’t mind. Also excuse me that I wrote this in a rush and my language may not be polished and refined. I’ll try to deal with this topic as straight-forward as possible and make it less controversial. Quite frankly, I don’t agree with most of what you said. 我認為同性戀大致應分為兩類：先天性同性戀者和後天性同性戀者。 This kind of classification has been outdated for years and is no longer considered valid, or even MEANINGFUL among academics. Why is that so? How do you know whether a person is a born homosexual? By the time he has consciousness or feelings of sex, he must have reached the age of 10 or 12. At that age he would have received much influences from his family, society, etc. The point is, even if he really is a born homosexual, there would have been no way to prove it whatsoever. That’s why researchers or academics abandon this classification years ago. This is no long a meaningful question to ask the field. Excuse me if I appear offensive to you . But I must say you have quoted quite a lot of presumed, inappropriate and negative phrases: 悲劇, 偏差, 正常的異性戀.,…etc. You may not agree with me but you appear to be very ANTI-GAY to me. As an educated person, please don’t use these phrases any more in your discussions. I don’t think homosexuality is pathetic or abnormal. They are the minority of the population but that does not make them abnormal. I think the people who think so are pathetic, ignorant and intolerant. 他們多半是由於後天的一些突發事故或刺激而令性取向出現偏差。 This is really unsubstantiated. A lot of homosexuals live happy lives with happy childhoods and caring families. They have never experienced any mishaps as you stated. They merely ARE homosexuals. Also, they DON’T have problems getting along with opposite sexes. They merely don’t fall in love with them. On the contrary a lot of gay men have wonderful relationships with women. A lot of women think it is much easier to get along with a gay men than a straight men. 說得玄妙一點，就是一個男人(女人)的靈魂被困在女人(男人)的身體內。先天性同性戀者不肯接受自己的性別，男的當自己是女的，女的則當自己是男的 Wrong! Way wrong! This is a real big mistake. You mix up gay and transsexuals. What you said applies to transsexuals. A biological man who does not perceive himself as a man. A man who wants to turn himself to a woman. A gay man, however, considers himself as a 100% man. When he falls in love with another man, they both know very clearly they are men. They have no intention or need to change it. 一個男同性戀者喜歡一個男孩，不是以一個男性的心態去喜歡，而是女性，那絕對是一種正正常常的「異性戀」的心理狀況，不正常的只是外表而已。他們其實和一般女性一樣，喜歡一個正常的男性(所謂正常，姑且定義為沒有異常癖好、喜歡異性)，這類男同性戀者亦希望自己喜歡的男性將他們看成是女性(當然這是不大可能的)般去照顧、去愛護，這是先天同性戀者追求的一種「終極」的愛情。 The reason why you came up with this faulty description is that you try to analyze them by imposing your own heterosexual way of thinking. This is obviously silly and inappropriate. Besides, how do you know about all those little details if you are not them? 先天性同性戀者，男的有不少會進行變性手術， Jesus Christ this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. Do you have any idea how many gay people are there in the world? How many of them have actually taken surgery? Most of them won’t even think of changing sex because there is absolutely no need to do so. They are happy to be men, gay men. (What I said also applies to lesbians). You really should spend more time thinking on this topic. Unlike other philosophical problems, sexual orientation is easier to comprehend since we all have our own orientations. If you consider yourself as heterosexual, try to answer these questions: 1. Are you a born heterosexual? If you say so, try to prove it. 2. What causes you to be heterosexual? Are you a heterosexual because you had some accidents in your childhood or abuses of any kind? What causes you to be heterosexual? If you can’t tell me REASONS which CAUSE you to be a heterosexual, try not to find causes of homosexuality because there really isn’t any. 3. Can you change your own sexual orientation and turn yourself to a gay man? If no, try not to convince gay people to be straight. 4. How would you feel if your family abandons you, the society abandons you and you even being beaten up just because you fall in love with some one with same sex. 5. What is so abnormal, pathetic and tragic if you live a happy and meaningful life with some one you love? Please think about these questions. I sincerely hope you can get some insights for yourself. Man we are living in the year 2002. Try to be a little open-minded. Be less judgmental. Don’t scrutinize and criticize them as a bunch of lab rats. Be more compassionate. They are people just like we are. There shouldn’t be any “they” or “we” in the first place. There is no boundary for love and we all need love. It is the person whom we are dealing with, not just his/her sex organs. There simply shouldn’t be such a distinction: homosexuals or hetersexuals. To me they are as ridiculous as stating whether you are white-sexuals, tall-sexuals or fat-sexuals. We are all human beings. We are ALL HUMAN SEXUALS. We are all different in some ways. It’s just another way of living, that’s all. It’s not they choose to be, it’s just they way they are. We can all do our parts to make it a better world. If you would like to understand more on this topic, you can try some of the literature available in the market. Dr. Chow, Wai Shan’s books are in fact really good and highly readable.. You can find them in most book stores and libraries.

看過了一木的"同一時間愛不同的人"後, 再看一木這篇"同性戀的吊跪" 我只得一個反應:搖頭

Of Prejudice Agree with 小寶, “我只得一個反應:搖頭” Well said, Benson! That’s a very good response. I just want to point out one more thing. “同性戀者永遠不可找到絕對的愛情。這並非基於道德上或心理、生理上的因素，而是基於邏輯上的不可能。” (emphasis mine). This so-called “logical impossibility” is founded on several faulty suppositions of 一木: 1) “後天性同性戀者…這類同性戀者，我不打算將他們當作「真正的同性戀者」看待” 2) “真正的同性戀者是先天性的” 3) “先天性同性戀者不肯接受自己的性別，男的當自己是女的，女的則當自己是男的” 4) “但問題是，一個正常的男性不可能愛男同性戀者” Now, I think that (4) is correct (but of course, the so-called “normal” man should be replaced by “heterosexual man”). And certainly, if (1) to (3) are correct (especially (1)), 一木’s reasoning will be correct too. Let (1) be true, then the rest can fall into place. But on what ground can he say that all REAL homosexuals are only those who are born to be homosexual? The point is, if (1) is false, then there are real homosexuals whose “外形和表面的行為看來都與一個正常男人或女人沒有分別” and who like each other. On the other hand, those so-called “後天性同性戀者” would fall in love with those so-called “先天性同性戀者”, there is no need for a 正常的男性 (I take this to be referring to a “heterosexual man”). In short, this created “logical impossibility” is founded on the faulty distinction between the so-called先天性同性戀者 and後天性同性戀者. As Benson explained, this is a rather out-dated thought. The question is why fallacious arguments of this kind will be accepted? This, I believe, has to do with the content (rather than the structure) of the argument. Since, in our society (you can’t believe how conservative and discriminatory Hong Kong people are; just consider how the people from India, Pakistan, the Philippines, and even mainland China are treated in Hong Kong), there is still a very strong anti-gay sentiment. People will easily accept these kinds of fallacious arguments without considering their fallacies just because they are biased. When someone says something bad about those “aliens” whom they don’t like, they tend to agree with that opinion in spite of its falsity. That’s why a liberal education is really needed. Tolerance (of differences in race, language, sex, sexual orientation, etc.) is, I think, the most precious virtue of a liberal and democratic society. Unfortunately, this is precisely what Hong Kong lacks.

感謝兩位(不是三位)網友 真的很高興，想不到自己多年前寫下的一些想法，會得到這麼詳盡的回應──即使回應都是批評的居多。的確，我對同性戀還有很多不認識的地方，但我想強調一句，即使我的想法有誤解，但絕不表示我有歧視。我也有朋友是同性戀的(一個很好的人，雖然已經死了)。 或許有很多網友會覺得我的想法「錯誤」，但想法錯誤總好過一聽到同性戀的話題便厭惡地「耍手擰頭」。如果因為我的「錯誤」而能令其他網友有機會看到這兩篇這麼詳盡的文章，那也可說是一件好事。 感謝兩位網友的指教，不過實在太長，而且太多專有名詞，可能未必人人讀得明白，如果可以再用中文寫一次就更好了。

Bensons & Faustus 剛拜讀有關文章, 但看來我未有時間回應了~ 今天看了和這題目相關的電影, 叫"情迷笨豬跳", 令我有很多想法... 如果不介意, 我將會在以下兩地方的新聞組討論相關的題目, 如有興趣請移步到那裡找我 :) news://news.checknews.net/humanities.philosophy 或 news://news.checknews.net/talk.christianity