向森兄道歉

情義 先有情後生義。 感義還情，下情。 付之予義圖以得情，下義。

好 ！

情義﹐兩難存﹖ vit 兄高見﹐所以情義應可共存。 任盈盈﹐能否舉一情義兩難存的例子﹖

情與義，值千金 Faustus 兄 對唔住，我諗用金庸�H小說人物好啲。如果你未睇過呢啲小說，不如你諗你啲例子，咁樣應該會好啲。 情有好多種，我只係隨便舉出下面啲例子，其餘種類�H情與義，請隨意舉例和發揮。 (1)《倚天屠龍記》中張翠山殺殷素素。 (2)《笑傲江湖》中令狐沖對岳不羣。 (3) 如果黃蓉給蒙古大軍捉去，要郭靖決定救黃蓉或捨棄襄陽城。 (4) 喬峰如何取捨阿朱和他的民族大義。 P.S. 諗唔到咁舊�H話題依家走番出黎。年近歲晚，近離都好忙，未必有咁多時間回應，還請 Faustus 兄原諒。我有個不情之請，希望 Faustus兄拔刀相助，主持大局。盈盈感激無限。

無言苦衷! Faustus 兄： You come most carefully upon your hour. ................................ 情義共存，固然世間美好事。 可惜，如果內心有其難取捨，而要問到兩者不能共存，如何選擇，自有無言苦衷!

情義兩心知 Faustus 兄面對如斯美好的女子，究竟接唔接招呢 ? 情義兩難全 ?

情義可共存 不過，真要選其一，必是捨情取義。為什麼？還是老掉牙那一句：「感情既野，係你就係你！」

如果再加上一個孝，會不會令問題更複雜？

母親和老婆一齊跌落海 愛母親多o的，救母親 愛老婆多o的，救老婆 情孝義，都不過是拿著一把尺子

我救哪一個？ 如果老婆和母親同跌落海，快要沉死，我救哪一個？ 我想，我會盡快跳下去，一齊同歸於盡！

森：「我不愛母親，又不愛老婆，更不愛自己，所以最好就全部一齊死。」

為左避免呢個情況…… 我一定至少教識佢地其中一個游水，不過最好兩個都識，等我有時間搵其他人嚟救！

東壁 Don't be so serious! Just kidding! 好吧，我左手救老婆，右手救母親，雙腳撐到底，就是了！

森 don't you think that i am kidding in your kidding too^^"

東壁 think so! 「孝」這條線好像在金庸的小說中著墨不多?!

唔/// 邊個仲意睇孝多d呢 邊個唔仲意情or義呢2條線呢

唔///......改一改 邊個仲意睇....多d呢 邊個唔仲意...........呢 好彩金庸唔駛停刊

我救雙兒 我救哪一個？ 如果老婆、母親同雙兒同跌落海，快要沉死，我救哪一個？ 我想，我會盡快跳下去，救起雙兒！

我會先救母親，報答她養育之恩。然後跳下海裡和太太一起死。

我認為這些題目不到我們真正遇上也不知道是否我們真正的答案. 我很起歡Hunter x Hunter 有一段,有類似的問題和答案

我都係救雙兒 一木，你諗下，雙兒又天真又可愛，雖然無見過，不過一定靚女一名，仲啱啱聽過精神貴族，做埋精神貴族tim，我思前想後，夢牽夢迴，為免大家寂寞，尤其是我，我決定都係救雙兒！

完全絕對是合乎邏輯的推論 森：「我不愛母親，又不愛老婆，更不愛自己，我只愛雙兒。」 雙兒，禮貌上應該講句多謝，但千祈唔好做佢妻子

聲明 本人00:40已呼呼入睡，鼾聲震天，因此，往後與我同用一名字的網友，是無心，還是有意跟我開玩笑，實叵心難測。希望有被冒犯的網友如雙兒，讀了就當一笑置之。特此說明。

森呀森 其實，這裡記起別人比被別人記起，意義大很多，因為不要以為有人會時常記起「你」。 森，你可以視這裡是一處公園，閒來走走，見有合意的話題，便聊一個忘情的下午，遇上投緣的網友，便談一個痛快的晚上。其他，都談不上牽掛了。 靜靜的來到，悄悄的離開。

無寶不落的「追擊手」 這裡果然有無寶不落的「追擊手」！好吧，我決定放棄用「森」這個名字，以後有關「森」的留言，與我無關（不過，我又是誰呢？沒人有興趣）。再於此聱明。 希望作俑者玩一下便算，要顧及網頁的討論氣氛及為網友的感受著想。

木森森 森林木森森林森木木木木 木木木木木林森森森 木木森木林森森木木木之間 林森森森木森林林林 木木森木林林木林森木林木草叢裡 林林林森林林林林木木森森林 森林好多林木木木好多森森木林木 森林木木木林木木木林好多林 林木林林森林森不可林木木木森 林森林木木告人林木木木林之事 林林木森林木林有野林木木𥄫 森林森林風光林林好木 森森林林木森森

一樣米養百樣人 森君：只要你作出了聲明,明眼的網友當能分辨一直以來的阿森,也就是"心貴於腦"的森,不同於最近才出現的"森"。憑留言所透露的心思,往往能分辨。P.S.剛出現的"閒人",也不同於一直以來的本閑人。

閑人 因為作了聲明，所以不欲食言。我認為，討論是一次的反思，用什麼名字沒所謂，說不定，討論區明天便消失。喜歡搞事的人，我就依他，因為搞事的人最會就是搞事，還可以奢望他什麼？

救母親先 救母親先因為年紀較大需要照顧，妻子年富力強，可能由佢救我兩母子也未可知。

"追擊手" 應作 "狙擊手"

To "心貴於腦"的﹝森） 上天好公平的：心思正不正,性情厚不厚,終會相應於自得幸福或自我懲罰的。

向森兄道歉 在下只是一時手癢，跟森兄開個玩笑，還望森兄大人有大量，不要生氣，用回你的名字。 事緣昨日在留言區閒逛，看見風兄在《喂埋黎睇埋黎......呀！》中，慨嘆網上沒有自我，我正深有同感之時，但見森兄曉以大義，說"...這裡記起別人比被別人記起，意義大很多..."，我就想森兄識見非凡，用森兄名義發言開一下玩笑，想亦不會怪罪！ 昨晚森兄兩個留言，確是在下手筆，志在開玩笑，並無惡意，也懇請雙兒莫怪！ 其實我和森兄一樣，喜歡留言區的討論氣氛，但偶一玩之，還望森兄息怒！^___^

不一定狙擊手 有想過用「狙擊手」，但好像過於殘忍，所以用「追擊手」（可能我受電視的「城市追擊」影響所致。 為什麼不一定是狙擊手？因我為追擊手加了開關引號。

閒人 我仍在懷疑這人是不是你？ 不過，要是真的，我會接受道歉。「森」與我無緣，有網友喜歡這平凡的名字，請隨手拈來。

向閒人道歉 剛看了你的留言,發覺本閑人言重了,誠意向你道歉。 P.S.森兄以後仍用原號,好嗎？

百分之一百真 森兄請勿多疑，閒人昨夜和今早的確和森兄開玩笑，但僅此而已。如果森兄已經不生氣了，還請用回原名吧，正如閑人所說，森兄"心貴於腦"，如果你放棄這名字，我們如何得知是你呢？ 閑人兄，多謝你的道歉，其實我用這名字只是順手拈來，並無冒犯或開玩笑之意，其實玩笑開一次已足夠，我不會無聊若此，一而再，再而三的。^.^

雙兒是靚女？ 雙兒，你是靚女嗎？為什麼這麼多人這樣說？ 不過就算不是，總算是帶給大家一個遐想的空間，謝謝。

閒人閑人何許人 森森林林邊個真 大千世界同一木 誤墮塵網尋開心

閒人 其實開玩笑沒所謂，惹人誤會，便過了火位。 什麼「心貴於腦」、「美善的心」，我從沒掛心上，我只知，人貴乎自知！ 閒人兄，不要哥前哥後了，我想我比你還年輕。 你不要記起我，你不改名，讓我能記起你，就是了。 最後，我信你，好了。

一木 //雙兒是靚女？ 雙兒，你是靚女嗎？為什麼這麼多人這樣說？ // 我相信大家都這樣認為的，森(不敢稱兄！)也會這樣想吧，不過他不敢宣之於口，我碰巧借他的口說出而已。 我真的認為如此，但還是一木說得好︰//不過就算不是，總算是帶給大家一個遐想的空間，謝謝//

續桃花源記 閒人閑人何許人 森森林林邊個真 大千世界同一木 誤墮塵網尋開心 WeWeWaWa過路人 旁觀微觀霎念生 無名風動吹雲起 雙兒靚靚夠心沉

又關我事?係咪玩野! 閒人、一木, 各花入各眼 我唔知我靚唔靚喎 大家唔使怕我嬲 我, 係識游水既, 應該唔會溺死, 大家可以自行救自己覺得重要既人。

Of Conflicts of Virtues vit 兄﹐ //You come most carefully upon your hour.// That’s very true. It’s getting near the end of term. So I guess that everyone’s busy. But on the other hand, I think that the examples that 盈盈 gave are very good. (Sorry 盈盈and everyone, it would be much faster for me to type in English.) From the examples given, it seems that in some cases there are indeed conflicts between情 (thereafter, I will use “love”) and 義 (thereafter, “Yi”). But I think that vit’s analysis is still a good one, that is, love is the basis for Yi. The difference between them is the object towards which that attitude is expressed. In the case of love (in all the examples give, it’s about romantic love), usually there is a particular individual to which the love is expressed, e.g. 郭靖愛 ‘黃蓉’. But in the case of Yi, there is not a particular individual to which the attitude (Yi) is expressed. Certainly, there is a group (e.g., the Han people), but it will be difficult to identify some particular individuals. This difference in the object to which the attitude is expressed leads to another important difference: the degree of the emotion. Usually, when we can identify a particular person to which our emotion is expressed, the emotion tends to be stronger (as we have more interactions with that person and hence easier to generate sympathetic feelings). But when we cannot identify the individual to which our emotion is expressed, the emotion tends to be less “lively” or “vivid”. In some cases, that emotion becomes so weak that only a pure sense of duty remains (this is what one usually means when one uses the term “Yi”). Now a conflict arises: whether Kwok should save Wong or defend the city? How should one choose? I am not sure because I am not familiar with the details of the story which are relevant to determine which action is the moral one. For example is Kwok officially assigned a role in defending the city (e.g., he is a general of some kind)? If so, the sense of duty should place a stronger constraint on him. In contrast, if he defends the city merely out of a general wish to protect the interest of the people, it seems that he should have more freedom to choose to save his wife. I said that I do not know the answer also because the decision has to be made according to some ethical principles. For example, if one is a utilitarian, it is very likely that one will say that Kwok should defend the city because utilities can be maximized. But to discuss which ethical principles are correct is far beyond the limit of my ability. In sum, 情is the basis of義, and yet sometimes, they are in conflict just in the same way when two emotions oppose each other. There are two issues here: 1) “Psychologically”, two emotions oppose each other and 2) “ethically”, we have to determine which emotion leads to the right decision. Once we have chosen certain ethical framework, together with the standard it provides, an answer can be given to (2). And since we have an answer to (2), we know which emotion is the one that should be cultivated; education and training gives a solution to (1). So the conflict can be resolved. P.S. This is in some sense a Humean approach to the issue. So, 忠､孝､仁､義should be in the same category (should be viewed as “virtues”, i.e., the character traits that tend to promote the passions which motivate actions that are usually conducive to the communal good).

Faustus Could you kindly type your "paper" in Chinese? It's just so so so so so long that every time I stroll along the lines again and again but it seems it's never gonna end. It's really nice to read yr opinion. But! It will be diffcult for those people whose English are not as good as you do to read your messages. Even they want to read, they might not have much time do so. So please be concise and be reader-friendly. And, to your question, I think if 黃蓉 was kidnapped and her existence was threatening the safety of the city, she would surely take her own life so that Kwok didn;t have to be in such a dilemma.

舜 很奇怪沒有人談舜。孟子盡心章句上說﹕ 舜是聖人﹐父親犯法﹐他身為天子﹐會怎樣做﹖孔二先生說﹕父為子隱，子為父隱﹐直在其中矣。 講起金庸﹐我一直在想﹐笑傲必然要那樣完結。因為如果任我行不死﹐那樣向問天和任盈盈會怎樣﹖無論他們怎樣做﹐也會是違反其性格的。這問題也許連金庸也答不到﹐所以任我行非死不可。未知Faustus和各位有何高見﹖

見大家講開笑傲江湖..... 有趣的上聯, 求下聯 :) 風清揚, 獨孤劍, 笑傲江湖; 湖江傲笑, 劍孤獨, 揚清風

阿雙兒啊 咁你就唔係好o岩啦, 人地Faustus寫o野即係塞錢落你袋, 英文唔好就睇多點寫多點, 我每次見到阿浮兄寫o野, 都會正襟危坐, 逐字咀嚼o架.

有點不解 S.C 舜……年代久遠，沒人記得啦~ 「父為子隱，子為父隱，直在其中矣。」 應該是有這句，但孔子似乎沒有特別「煲」(不會打或我字庫中沒這個字)貶「直」啊？

情義其實不必分開來看... 義就是作適當合誼的事 而不違背心中真情便可看作為義 我覺得可視孝為情(亦是義) 孝不只限於「報恩之義」，亦可以是一種「感動之情」 以我來說，若母親和老婆一齊跌落水，我一定先救母親，合情合義合理

問鋒君 如果掉下水的是母親和女兒呢﹖或母親和祖母呢﹖(又﹐在你的例子中﹐母親會不會贊成兒子/丈夫救她自己而不救太太﹖) 我自己覺得說自己或別人的家人﹐總不是好事﹐也許是我思想保守。不如說掉下水的是虛構的甲。說起來比較容易。:)

其實先救母親或妻子的假設每個人看法不同。但如果事情真的發生在現實生活中, 我們是沒有選擇的,因為我們都會先救能最快救起的那個( 假設二人都對我重要,亦是這個假設的要點)。我們並不能斷言說出應救那一個而置另一位的生死於不顧。

曉寒中茫然的路上 青青子衿，悠悠我心； 盈盈一水，脈脈無語。 悲歡離合總無情， 聽雨簷前下， 一任階前、點滴到天明。

Hi, do you mind if I join your discussion? For the story between Kwok and Wong: In fact, Kwok had once turned down the opportunity to marry Wong in exchange to save lives of thousands of innocent people. Wong was disapppointed and that pissed her off for quite a while. So, Kwok definitely will defend the city first. He was a real stubborn patriot although he was madly in love with Wong. I think it is a good deed to protect the city. If he gave up the city, thousands of lives would have been lost. Also, I don’t think those people who captured Wong would let them live once they seized the city. To me I think I’ll place “justice” on the top of the list. It’s my personal motto: justice comes first. Even my family can’t push me to do things which are morally wrong. My lover told me once: “you shouldn’t compromise your integrity even for me”. I think she’s absolutely right. Think about it this way: most, if not all, people have families and lovers. If they can do whatever they want just to cover the mistakes of their loved ones (as a lot of them really do in real life), what kind of a world will that become? This is also true for孝. 孝 doesn’t mean to do whatever mum says. It means to be good to her and be reasonable. To me: 不孝有三, 愚孝為大. Talking about 金庸, I also found some unjust acts in his stories. For example in 倚天, 張三丰 forgave殷素素 for her meaningless, massive killings while he killed 宋青書 merely for peeking 周芷若. He, though a great master, committed the mistake of double standard of morality. If my mum and my lover are drowning in the water, who will I save first? I am lucky that I don’t have that problem ‘cause I don’t know how to swim. :)

轉一轉角度 我叫佐杯冰紅茶 人地又比多杯綠豆沙 要是只能喝下一杯 飲冰紅茶，還是綠豆沙？ 我還未叫出喬治布殊就當機了 所以系統出了一些問題 輸入各飲半杯是會產生error的 敬請見諒

鋒，你是否會飲綠豆沙? 合理嗎？

A，久違了！ 楊柳青青江水平，聞郎江上唱歌聲， 東邊日出西邊雨，道是無晴還有晴。 浪花有意千重雪，桃李無言一隊春。 一壺酒，一竿綸，世上如儂有幾人﹖ 借古詩二首謝過李教授！

忘不了 綠楊芳草長亭路，年少拋人容易去 樓頭殘夢五更鐘，花底離情三月雨 無情不似多情苦，一寸還成千萬縷 天涯地角有窮時，只有相思無盡處 ..............................晏殊

李老師的好詩 《惟淡乃永》 李天命 一個A︰A 兩個A︰AA 百個千個萬個A 如果重疊在一起 就會只得一個A 一個i，一個j 兩個i，兩個j 百千萬個i和j 如果重疊在一起 也會只得一個j 必須保持距離 才有靈魂知己 成績單上才可以 出現很多很多個 AAAAAAA…… 2002-11-23 12:45:00 如此好詩，豈能埋沒於某題目之一角？理應大開題目，公諸同好、張燈結綵、大事鋪張、小事化大......

綠豆沙??? 回S.C: 若問我先救哪一個，我回答先救母親，因為這為我來說是最重要的。然每個人取捨有所不同。 我們在這個情況之中，不能論証一個客觀標準給所有人遵守。我只想指出我們不必將情義分開量度，然後看哪個重要而作抉擇。只要抉擇時選取自己真切關心的，不違背自己的「真情」，便可算合義了。 我會先救母親，並不代表我不想救其他的人，只是我會覺得我對母親的關心會先於其他人，這只是個人心中最直接的情感。所以有些人會選擇先救老婆，「有些人」會先救雙兒(講笑~~)... 這些都是心中最直接真切的關懷，不必計較是否合乎一些道德規條，或報了恩沒有... 我認為各人順乎最真切直接之情便是合義(適當)...

再回S.C 說自己或別人的家人﹐當然不是好事﹐不是你的思想保守。大家都不忍心有人掉下水的，我相信這都是對人的真切關心。 :) p.s S.C, 你吃綠豆沙嗎？

Moral Feelings As requested by 雙兒, I shall be concise. 1) Re: 父為子隱，子為父隱﹐直在其中矣。 This points out the fact that filial piety (孝) is the basis for loyalty (忠). Without the former, there can’t be the latter. Similar relationship holds between 情 and 義. 2) Re: Impartiality //To me I think I’ll place “justice” on the top of the list. It’s my personal motto: justice comes first. Even my family can’t push me to do things which are morally wrong. My lover told me once: “you shouldn’t compromise your integrity even for me”. I think she’s absolutely right. Think about it this way: most, if not all, people have families and lovers. If they can do whatever they want just to cover the mistakes of their loved ones (as a lot of them really do in real life), what kind of a world will that become?// While (1) gives a good description of our moral psychology, as Benson pointed out, morality requires impartiality (that moral considerations should be distanced from one’s personal interests and one’s relationship with others). This is a classical spilt between passion-based and reason-based ethical theories. Which one is correct? I know not.

天涯地角有窮時，只有相思無盡處 不錯！ 春雨樓頭尺八簫， 何時歸看浙江潮？ 芒鞋破砵無人識， 踏過櫻花第幾橋。 .............曼殊

答案 三年前有幸出席李博士一個講座，當中問及「情義兩難全」時應作何決擇。 李博士的答案是：既然問題是這樣空泛，我也空泛地回答 - 視乎「情」和「義」哪個對你重要吧！ 言下之義，閣下自己的選擇，只有你自己知道，我可幫不了你。 希望我沒理解錯吧！ :-p

前言....後語 回 Faustus 兄： 2002-11-22 15:22:42 答題那天，已思索好會兒。 答後，內心仍然忐忑不安。 因為答了似沒答。 好了! 今天舊題翻出，連個好字，不禁面熱! (好在前幾月在太陽下做了很多義工體力運動) 問：如是有此dilemma, what would, could and should I do. 又想一會，千頭萬緒。 為什麼說你來得及時呢？ 因為剛想到要拉你來幫手，另請S.C.啦, 海澎, 一木, 雙兒啦，theodore，齊來研究。 就見你現身，沒法不喜出望外，不禁用了Francisco...hamlet的一句話. 前言 ............................... 後語 只可惜我們仍是沒有給任盈盈一個回答!

《惟淡乃永》 君子之交也

Looking Forward //後語 只可惜我們仍是沒有給任盈盈一個回// Vit, I don’t think that we have to worry. From what she said, I think that she has already thought about the issue for quite a long time. She should have a pretty good answer in mind. I’d rather wait till she finishes her finals and comes back to tell us.

(1)《倚天屠龍記》中張翠山殺殷素素。張翠山選自殺對師弟盡義不殺殷素素的不絕情 (2)《笑傲江湖》中令狐沖對岳不羣。不是例子，令狐沖生死關頭才對岳不羣自衛還擊，令狐沖對岳不羣盡情盡義。 (3) 如果黃蓉給蒙古大軍捉去，要郭靖決定救黃蓉或捨棄襄陽城。郭靖棄襄陽城蒙古大軍仍未必立破城門，不救黃蓉或與黃蓉共生死是郭靖負義 (4) 喬峰如何取捨阿朱和他的民族大義。阿朱當樂意支持喬峰的民族大義吧！

喬峰, 阿朱 喬峰, 阿朱 實在才是金庸中最令人喜愛的一對... 可惜. 可惜.

可惜. 可惜. 寫在最不令人喜愛的一本

要不要怪在倪先生頭上呢? 聽聞是他代筆才令整個故事奇奇怪怪 喬峰喬峰, 到橋會嬌, 木獨是蕭峰? 阿朱阿朱, 為父為爹, 多此一舉嗎 ?

也曾聽聞書中有倪先生的手筆 卻不知他寫的是大綱 多美的一朵鮮花，生不逄時，生不逄地...

dilemma 任盈盈 情義之間無論選任何一個都係唔正確 因為情義都好重要 如果一定要選唔選唔得既 一定會因為無選另外一個而好難過 做戲睇書就覺得好dramatic好盪氣迴腸 但實際上要快擇會好痛苦 之不過,情同義,真係互不相容?